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The real issue is in the sport vs classical BJJ debate is ?
The need on the side of the purists to seek validity and approval from others before doing a thing..
Honestly isn’t that what separates sports and fighting systems from martial arts ?? In a sport you never have to ask if what you are doing is ok, so long as it wins the odds everyone will follow suit and do the same.
But with classical practioners any change is blasphemy 🙂
There are plenty of other elements that could be brought to light too but let’s stay on that’s important often overlooked train of thought.
this old school vs new school bjj debate has been going on since the very beginning but brought to international attention with superfight with royce vs wallid in 1998[/caption]
Sport BJJ is generally safer more palatable & profitable since it’s accessible to so many people, this leads to many in the old school or reality-based circles to say that they are “ruining the art” or not teaching the real Jiu-Jitsu.But at the same time there are places like the Barrie BJJ academy that cover all the bases nicely so its really a case by case basis.
Honestly, in terms of the sport, some of whats done doesn’t appeal to me and I chose to put energy into that approach but at the same time see no reason to get all militant about people rolling around for fun.
YOU ARE NOT FIGHTING
I’m going to be real about this YES most of what sport bjj guys do will indeed get you killed in a fight but those practicing the “modern jujitsu” never had any aspirations or plans on fight and in fact those running the sportive side and of things and federations today decided to either steer clear entirely of fighting or to retire early back when it was all the rage (2001-2013) give or take a few years, and instead focus on building the infrastructure of the sportive side of the art.
Key point they made a move and built something for themselves
This is why I don’t get it at all when people complain about the ibjjf.. Making the rules and regulations in their own house.
They took the time to build the federation so how can anyone complain??
Don’t like the rules?? Ok do your own thing
Hate the point system?? Ok do your own thing
Think it fight real fighting?? Ok do your thing
It would be an easy fix, stop complaining & instead start making moves of your own.
But the problem lies with the fact any attempt at foward progress (outside of a few circles) is held back by a need for validation from others
What I mean by that is while the sportive side of the art still has that element of “ show and prove”, the very same that made so many fall in love with the art in the early 90’s “if even in a limited scope of rules” the sport keeps growing because as people learn and adapt to what’s working new tactics and strategies come up.
Yes a lot looks crazy and is pretty silly when taken from a fight based perspective BUT if that’s not your concern what difference does it matter?
Prepare for the Bolo & much 50/50 work at the high levels.. Honestly why not ? if you have decided to never get hit and work within a tight rule set why not master the game with as many refinements as you can? Cricket and Baseball players operate in two different lanes and fact is JiuJitsu today is no different.
It can indeed be terrible to watch 6 mins of 50/50 to and advantage followed by a 10 min celebration that rivals the world cup
but thats what happens when the base square off, its so tightly matched & not usually the blow out you’d see when any of these
tops shelve guys face the regular civilians that also practice the art.
“pre-youtube what the smart guys did was get tapes from Paqueta of local tourneys like the brasiliero’s or rio state championship or the equipes
and then youd see next level game on display.”
Get with the times
The traditionalist are so stuck on “ back in the day” that any change or adaptation is looked at negatively, and not the “Real Jiu jitsu”
I once had this long convo with a 7+ degree black belt from the old times where I mentioned” Hey modern boxing is best for hands and adapting bjj striking to incorporate that vs the techniques and stance of the old time grand-masters of the art is a good idea.”
He looked me straight in the face said “NO the original art is perfect and it’s people that are the ones that mess it up ….”
Makes for a great quote in a book but damn how do you respond to something like that?? I just let it realising he’d been in that lane for so long that I couldn’t show him the light+ some people just want what they want which is fine and flies both ways.
Thoughts on this BJJ for self defense??:)
Let everyone do with they like but being honest about what you are doing & growth is important
SO again im saying
Let the BOLO boys do their thing and keep building that side of the art/game, and the more conservative side of the fence would be far better served giving people options and ways to get into the art in the way they see it… Rather than taking shots at those making moves in their respective lane.
It’s time of we come up with Positive alternatives & solutions that make conservative jujitsu appealing to people. and I do mean also outside of the mma circles.
Now dont get my wrong I totally understand if you are just practicing and mastering your style. Much like a karateka learns their system of student of calligraphy hones their craft..
Thats a totally different case I get and respect that. More power to you if mastery is your aim BUT no one likes a know it all so better to build something of your own and make that great vs telling these kids what they are doing is foolishness in your eyes through the lense of old school Fight Based/Self Defense Jiu-Jitsu ..
Sports not perfect and certainly not a viable solution for anything to do with a fight but its great to see these athletes making a solid living and being paid more than all but the elite levels of mma fighters.
Gone are the days of no one else knowing BJJ so it shows a great deal intelligence and honesty to say “Hey i don’t want to do the work to learn all the skills needed to fight another skilled fit opponent and would rather do my thing on the mats”
There are smart people in every walk of life and those adhering to the roots of Jiu-jitsu are doing great and building solid
infrastructure themselves with the only problem imo being accessibility. The best examples that come to mind are.. click the links and take a look
1- Valente brothers- Direct students of Helio students that teach the original system
2- Team Noguiera-Wald Blosie academy
Long time BJJ black belt and MMA fighter that done it all and is one of the first in south florida thats
walked the full path and now as i said is teaching his real life experience to those in the academy in addition
to the sportive bjj most popular in the area.
#3- Javier Vasquez academy –
Another guy thats done it all from sport gi – no gi to mma and actually runs focused on strike based jiujitsu with some solid material. Javi is as elite as it gets as old school bjj practitioner and have the insight from all aspects of the game
these guys need no introduction, having taken what was taught to them by thier family taking it online (again initially meet negatively by the purists) and even modifying things bit to keep with recent innivations
the online students ive meet are bit delusional about their actual abilities 🙂 but make no mistake these two know their craft and went on a tear beating almost everyone when
they decided to start keeping it playful. Make no mistake both Ryron and Renner can really go on the mats with a solid core of techniques just about everyone would claim to know.
which brings me to the top of next post coming soon…. Simplicity
5 thoughts on “Final Clarity in the Old vs New school BJJ debate”
A little proofreading goes a long way buddy . Be better than this.
lol you are 100 percent correct my friend.. admittedly i was in hurry to respond to a facebook chat with the post but thanks i will hit a homerun on the next one
There is no seperation of jiu jitsu, we only wish everyone was taught the street self defense FIRST, as your survival skills need to be in your sub-concience. then on to sport.
at one point this was true but being honest with myself and looking at the growth in the different elements its very hard to say everyone flying the flag of jiujitsu is practicing anywhere near the same thing..and given the need for focus i understand why people specialize.. doing whatever you preffer is fine its selling the bait and switch that bothers me
No need to push people in any direction but today the art has grown in soo many paths its not possible to label it all the same.. Self defense isn’t what garry tonnon is doing in ADCC.